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 Topic  |
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GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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 Posted - 01/18/2010 : 01:04:38 AM
What do you guys (christians, fundis, atheists, non-christians...) know about the historic backround, the roots of the jewish(christian) bible? |
William R. Jenkins
USA
3489 Posts
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Posted - 01/18/2010 : 12:02:34 PM
Got,Your questiion will produce the same results as if it were directed to a tree.The people in this part of America still think as those that lived in the dark and middle ages,their lives filled with fear,hate and ignorance.Those that are able to think for themselves often are suffering fron cognitive dissonance and delusion.Very few are interested in even learning what is written in their bibles,but depend on what their church leaders and parents have told them.Hate and cruelity are very alive here.There are members of my family that are Christian ,to include my son.They are much different than those here ,maybe the reason is because they think,the result of education.WRJWilliam R.Jenkins |
GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/19/2010 : 01:37:04 AM
Come on, people! Interact and say sth. I cannot believe it Will,why is their faith more important to them than common sense? |
William R. Jenkins
USA
3489 Posts
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Posted - 01/19/2010 : 3:11:40 PM
Got,I believe there are some so-called good people around here.That doesn't mean that they have any common sense.This part of the United States (and you probably know this already)was settled by those people from the British Isles and evolution has passed them by That is the main reason they are creationists.The group of people I associate with here,are from other states for the most part.You may as well forget about them participating in a debate of religion with you.As you know ,history doesn't speak well of the Acts of Christians.They believe that their god is justified in murdering all the people except one family and yet they follow the commandment of thou shall not kill,except when it's directed against non-Christians.Also they are against the rights of women to have an abortion but their god killed women that were pregnant.WRJWilliam R.Jenkins |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/19/2010 : 3:17:38 PM
GoT, what exactly is it that you want to know? I know some about Bible history, and I have read the Bible through quite a few times. There is a lot of information about Bible history and I don't have time to write a book. If you do a google search on Bible history you will get a lot of information. Just remember that everything you read on the internet is not always accurate. Here are a couple of sites that will give you a good bit of information about the history of the Bible:http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.html#85AcsRfCWrAN http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/
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GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/19/2010 : 3:51:21 PM
Moses was based on Moises, a syrian myth. An earlier version. A small boy found floating on the water, a staff that changes into a snake, waters that were parted, so that followers could be led to freedom and he even received laws on stone written tablets.
Do you belief literally everything in the bible? Some of you might say yes and would argue, that the bible has undergone a lot of changes, but god has spoken through man to make his word clearly.
Here is my question: he couldn´t get it right the first time?
Some might throw in that we are imperfect, that he had to work to make us understand.
Here is my question: he couldn´t get us right the first time?
Taken alone the philosophical teachings of Jesus it is Budhism with a hebrew accent. Kindness. Tolerance. Brotherhood. Love. A ruthless realism acknowledging that life is what it is, here on earth, here and now. Kingdom of god, meaning, goodness is right here, where it should be, I am what I am becoming.
That´s what Buddha and Jesus tought, but a talking snake made a lady eat an apple, so we are screwed. Heaven and hell were paddled, so that priests could rule through seduction and terror to save our souls, that we haven´t lost in the first place. Jesus threw a clean pass, they ran out of the ballpark. Buddha and Jesus would laugh or cry, if they know what was done in their name, and if there is a creator, he would probably feel the same way. I see Ceremony, ritual, processions genuingly reflecting moaning and toaning, venerating cookies and vine.
The old testament sells fear and guilt. The new testament is a good code of ethics, put in Jesus´s mouth by poets and philosophers who were probably much smaller than he was. The message is never practiced. Farytales build churches.
Jesus as a name is a nice story. As tale of the “resurrection” spread it was confused with the hebrew name Johan, meaning god is greacious, showing that his stay on earth was proof of divine immortality, and that led to “god is salvation” or hebrew “Jeshua”,the translation then into old greek “Yiesus”, then into late Latin “Yesus” and finally into medieval latin “Jesus”.
The three wisemen began as a myth of the birth of the Buddha. The Christ figure goes all the way back to Krishna. Hercules of course: born of a virgin,Alcmene, a god for a father, Zeus, the only begotten, savior of the greek, greek suture, the good shepard, the prince of peace bringing gerneral persuasion and divine wisdom, he died, joined his father on olympos. A thousand years before Gethsemane.The early christian leader threw away hebrew manifests and borrowed from pagan sources all over the place. |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/20/2010 : 11:55:24 AM
GoT, you can believe what you've been told all your life, or you can actually have an open mind and look at the evidence presented on the websites I posted and on others. What you choose to believe isn't going to change anything that I believe. |
Wildflower
USA
4446 Posts
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Posted - 01/20/2010 : 12:20:48 PM
quote:
What do you guys (christians, fundis, atheists, non-christians...) know about the historic backround, the roots of the jewish(christian) bible?
What do I know? A pretty good amount actually - tons more than they teach in Sunday School, that's for sure.
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GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/20/2010 : 12:54:36 PM
Who said I want to change your believe? |
Wildflower
USA
4446 Posts
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Posted - 01/20/2010 : 1:27:15 PM
quote:
This part of the United States (and you probably know this already)was settled by those people from the British Isles and evolution has passed them by. That is the main reason they are creationists.
Many Christians acknowledge evolution, except for the fundamentalists. They are creationists because they have a poor understanding of evolution and don't seek to improve it. Most of them get their information about evolution from Christian anti-evolution books and web sites. They seldom read anything written by the scientists who are actually experts in evolution, so they are easily mislead. Unfortunately, Christian anti-evolution material frames the discussion according to their own agenda, usually entirely misrepresenting the subject and written by authors with no scientific background. And if the author does have a scientific background, they have not specialized in evolution at all. Every single Creationist or Intelligent Design statement has been rebutted and cleared up numerous times ad nauseum. Here is just a sample of some very good sites on the internet. This is the largest site I know of devoted to explaining evolution vs. Creationism/Intelligent Design: http://www.talkorigins.org/ A more simple site: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/origsoflife_01 A University Professor who speaks to churches about evolution: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/science/29prof.html?_r=1&em&ex=1209614400&en=e29797cae1c5faf5&ei=5087 Discussion of the fraudulent science behind Creationism/Intelligent Design including who the big players are: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/philosop/creation.htm http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/04/29/950658.aspx Evolution for Creationists: http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/evolution.html It's just a "Theory" nonsense: http://www.notjustatheory.com/index.html Refuting the moved "Expelled" by Ben Stein: http://www.expelledexposed.com/index.php/the-truth CHRISTIAN Evolutionists: http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/evolution/christian_evolutionists.html That last one means there is hope.
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GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/20/2010 : 6:44:36 PM
I thought about this " I willnot change my belief" thing. As I said,not intended, but I thinkeven if Jesus, hisdad and the holy spirit would appear publicly and say thatit was all a mistake, theyare no gods...etc., you would still stand there saying "no, I wont change my belief!"..."Hey it is my, Jesus, I was an ordenary man!"..."No! You are satan, I won´t change my belief..."
Isn´t it funny, how everything has its origin in this one book, which has been changed, overwritten...fantasy,farytale (you know, what I mean...),I bet those people really are surprised when they die,thattheyreally didn´t get the message of kindness and tolerance. Read multiple ancient sources pls, in order to verify a story, that´s how the police is doing it, right? |
GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/21/2010 : 3:02:12 PM
Did you know that the bible and the koran share 75% of the texts and that there are 452 referances to the old testament in the new testament and that jews, moslems and christians all claim to relate back to Abraham? |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 11:56:07 AM
Wildflower, I think we are both stubborn in our beliefs, so there's no point in us arguing, LOL. I will say that for every website that "proves" evolution is true, there is another one that says the opposite. Here are a few:http://www.darwinismrefuted.com/index.php http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/ee http://skepticblog.org/2009/02/09/ten-major-flaws-of-evolution-a-refutation/ http://www.tdtone.org/evolution/TDTns.htm http://creation.com/refuting-evolution-index http://www.harunyahya.com/refuted1.php http://www.ftrbooks.net/science/darwin/not_by_chance.htm http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/cm/v22/n1/creation-proof |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 11:59:42 AM
quote:
I thought about this " I willnot change my belief" thing. As I said,not intended, but I thinkeven if Jesus, hisdad and the holy spirit would appear publicly and say thatit was all a mistake, theyare no gods...etc., you would still stand there saying "no, I wont change my belief!"..."Hey it is my, Jesus, I was an ordenary man!"..."No! You are satan, I won´t change my belief..."
This would not happen because God does not lie, and for Jesus, his Father God, and the Holy Spirit to say that they were not a god would be a lie. |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 12:04:43 PM
quote:
...I bet those people really are surprised when they die,thattheyreally didn´t get the message of kindness and tolerance....
I'll bet that there are a lot of people who don't believe in God, satan, heaven, and hell who are sadly surprised when they die. |
GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
|
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 12:54:52 PM
I get your point, and as stated I don´t wanna take it away from you or put id down or sth., but come on, everybody is wrong, except you. You and and only you alone (meaning all sharing your faith...;-)get to go to "heaven", because you belief in this desert god? You read the book about him, needless to ague it was changedand bent so many times it seems countless. You cannot really believe that historic Jesus is anything like you widh him to be or like the tales about him go. What makes "regular" people (non-christians) so angry about your attitude is, that you wipe away everything which isn´t in the bible and which is controversial. I mean if proof would jump in your face, you would choose to ignore it, no matter what. In my country there are still people denying the shoa, despite all the evidence. Pls admit, that WE ALL know NOTHING. No god has ever stepped down in front OF YOU and has proven him-/herself to you. And forget about inner revelations and positive feelings you have when reading the bible. There are people reading The Lord of the Rings having the same experience. What I mean is, stop putting others down. I KNOW! You don´t do this, but it COMES OVER like that. It makes us angry, that you refuse yourself to even questionthe beble, its origin, its content and its authors. |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 2:20:34 PM
I'm sorry if I make you angry. That was not my intent. I'm just stating my opinions of what I believe to be the truth as God has shown it to me. quote:
...In my country there are still people denying the shoa, despite all the evidence...
What is the shoa? |
William R. Jenkins
USA
3489 Posts
|
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 2:24:15 PM
You are completely correct on all counts,in my opinion Got.All atheists and Humanists will agree with us both.I haven't yet met a christian capable of listening to reason.I have personal experience with this.I copied, from my computer an essay(Biblical Nonsense)for my daughter-in- law.My son,not even a thumper or fundie would not allow her to read it.I attempt to keep my critisms of christians to a simple and basic nature,which is at times very difficult with people that are so gullible.No one has ever returned ,after dying and told me if there was a hell or not.I didn't ask this chap Jesus to die for my sins,which are only social laws.You are right again in your claim that preachers don't tell their sheep about the truth of their X-rated books,the bible.Hardly any christians know that their murdering god had two bears to tear forty-two young children to small pieces because they laughed at a man (Elisha)for being bald headed.It's in Kings if any thumper doubts this.What I dislike about Christians are acts such as this,murder and vengence is what the old testament is about,not love and mercy.These people believe that their horrible god has done no wrong.I find that evil and nauseaous. I have believe,since I was a young boy that Christianity is the worst of all organized religions.Humanist and proud of my statusWilliam R.Jenkins |
GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 2:59:10 PM
Yes, Will. I agree with many of your terms. I knew about this bear/kids part,wouldn´t know where to find it,though. I think the 180 degree turn is so grave. Changing from a god of wrath who sent an angel with a fire-sword to annihilate whole cities to a god of love and peace??? I don´t think so. Jesus had the right ideas at the time. He was one of many "prophets" back then...but I love having conversations about religion, it is taking us sometimes to places wh haven´t dreamt of before...Did you guys se the "Religious" movie by this comedian, Mahler?
Btw, the Shoa is the Holocaust. |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 3:35:58 PM
Goodness, Mr. Jenkins, for someone who doesn't believe God exists you sure do have a lot of hate for Him.Thanks, GoT, I remember now hearing the Holocaust being called the Shoa. Y'all have a good weekend! |
William R. Jenkins
USA
3489 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 6:11:58 PM
Meg.I don't usually tell people they are wrong ,not even on a forum,but this time I will and I thought you had a better understanding of my objective.Of course I don't believe there is a god anywhere for anyone.I can't hate something that doesn't exist,but if he did exist I would hate him.You should understand I hate what has been done by those that have killed and tortured others because of what they believe.History has recorded millions of victims and Christians have been the guilty..I repeat,Christians are the worlds most evil people.I have risen above them in the area of decency and higher moral values.This is because I condemn the crimes written in the bible while Christians have not.WRJ Humanist.William R.Jenkins |
meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 8:28:18 PM
quote:
....Hardly any christians know that their murdering god had two bears to tear forty-two young children to small pieces because they laughed at a man (Elisha)for being bald headed....William R.Jenkins
Mr. Jenkins, I am surprised that this upsets you so much since you are a strong supporter of abortion. Did you know that in many abortions a suction device is inserted into the womb and the babies are torn apart, their arms and legs ripped off as they scream in pain. In later term abortions where the baby is developed enough to survive outside the womb if born prematurely, the mother is induced into labor and when the baby's head is birthed (a live, perfectly healthy baby in many cases), the abortionist punctures the baby at the back of its skull and uses a suction device to suck its brains out, thus killing it. I find THAT evil and nauseous. Abortion kills innocent babies who have never done anything wrong. I don't see how a bear mauling kids who were making fun of an old person is any worse than abortion.
Edited by - meg on 01/22/2010 8:36:56 PM
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meg
United States
759 Posts
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Posted - 01/22/2010 : 8:52:27 PM
[quote]
...No god has ever stepped down in front OF YOU and has proven him-/herself to you. ...It makes us angry, that you refuse yourself to even questionthe beble, its origin, its content and its authors....
[/quoteHow can you say that God has never proven himself to me? You don't even know me, and apparently you don't know God either. God has proven himself to me, and I will never question his power, his faithfulness, his righteousness, nor his sovereignty. You wonder why it is only Christians who refuse to question their faith while people of other religions, like yourself, can question theirs. Maybe it's because of our relationship with God and having confidence in our faith and our God. Like the bible says, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. That is why Christians live in freedom, not in fear as some people have said. Also, you can't believe that everyone who says they are a Christian really is. It's some so-called Christians who give real Christians a bad reputation. I love everyone here and wish only the best for you all. I hope that you all live confidently in peaceful freedom. |
GodOfThunder
Germany
34 Posts
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Posted - 01/23/2010 : 09:18:46 AM
So you are saying you saw a real god,not only in your mind, but for real and you could talk to him in person? |
William R. Jenkins
USA
3489 Posts
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Posted - 01/23/2010 : 10:15:54 AM
Meg,I am able to seperate the act of abortion with the rights of women to make their own choices.I know all the horrible truth of abortions at a later stage.If I had a personal choice I wouldn't have an abortion.You will find that all humanists feel exactly as I do on this subject.Again I strongly object to people telling a woman what they can or can't do with their bodies.That includes government and all religions.I could never mistreat a child in ant form,but according to your bible,that is alright.Some how I think you don't agree with all the horrible examples of child abuse,written in your bible.If you don't,WRJ has enough compassion for us both.WRJ HumanistWilliam R.Jenkins |
William R. Jenkins
USA
3489 Posts
|
Posted - 01/23/2010 : 10:21:36 AM
Again.I am not a strong supporter of abortion.But human rights and the right of personal choice should never taken as long as we live in a country that has a democracy.The United States of America isn't a police state nor do we have a national religion.WRJWilliam R.Jenkins |
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Historic Truth about bible
